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DDDS2 : TDD? I Don’t Have Time round-up

As a final sign-off on my talk, before it’s released fully to the world, I wanted to discuss the feedback I got and direct people to other thoughts on TDD. It’s all in the interests of openness, so feel free to add any further comments.

First of all, I would like to say that my slide decks and code are now available on the Developer Day Scotland website (Thanks Colin):

Speaker: Craig Nicol
Title: TDD – I don’t have time

2009 Slide Decks – Developer Day Scotland


Overall the feedback was fairly positive, and it seems that a lot of people got a good sense of TDD from the demo, although I accept that the pacing was a bit wrong and it was bad form to end the session with some failing test. Still there were some good questions in the Q&A so I’d rather have finished a couple of minutes earlier and had more questions than push on with the coding. I few people suggested that fewer slides and more code would have been good. I’m all for that, I’m a nervous speaker, and it’s been a while since I last presented, so more typing and less speaking works for me, especially when it gets interactive.

I do accept that I probably spoke too fast, and it’s not the only time I’ve been told that, but I hope that will resolve itself with a bit of practice and some better breathing.

For the person who wanted a better comparison of tools, I wish I’d had the time for that, but all the tools worth using have free trials, so have a look at this list from my previous post and try them out yourself:

I don’t know what tools to use

Test Driven Design : Developer Day Scotland 2 « Craig Nicol’s Weblog

For the person who wanted a take home message to answer the point over “I don’t have time to test”, I think I mis-sold the talk a little, and I should have made the mythbusting part more prominent than my original catchy title. I hope I answered a few points about why it can save you time in the long run, but my apologies if I did mis-lead you.

Thanks to Richard for this review. Glad you found the live coding helpful.

10:45“TDD? I don’t have time” by Craig Nicol Craig talked about TDD from baby steps and I gained a lot from it. Was a real shame that the tests he wrote ultimately didn’t pass but the promise of code to finish off gives me something to dig into!

irtimaled: My #dddscot Sessions

Other Resources

If the talk has whetted your appetite for TDD, have a look at the books linked from my previous post and have a look at these three links to help you join the discussion.

TDD Tests are not Unit Tests
Let’s start with the distinction between TDD tests and unit tests. On the surface, TDD tests are very similar to unit tests. This is not surprising, since you use a unit testing framework such as Visual Studio Tests or NUnit to create both types of tests.

TDD Tests are not Unit Tests

good design is far more beneficial and important than the practice of unit testing. However, good design + TDD/Behavioral Driven Development/Acceptance Test Driven Development? That’s where the real rewards happen. Don’t settle for mediocre efforts. Do both and reap the rewards.

Design and Testability – Jeremy D. Miller — The Shade Tree Developer – CodeBetter.Com – Stuff you need to Code Better!

If you do want to dive into TDD, you should also look at Behaviour Driven Design (BDD). I’ve heard it called TDD without the T-word, or an extension and refinement of the philosophy, but however you see it, if TDD is your thing, you owe it to yourself to have a look at the BDD road to design and testability. This link has a lot of good onward links, and it’s a podcast so you can listen while you work, or on the bus. It’s a bit more interesting than Eurovision.

This week on Herding Code, Scott Bellware educates and entertain as only he can. Scott talks about Behavior Driven Development (BDD), Test Driven Development (TDD) and Lean Software Development, gets “all preachy” and donates to the show a nearly endless batch of outtakes.

Episode 42: Scott Bellware on BDD and Lean Development | Herding Code


Thanks again to all the organizers and attendees of Developer Day Scotland.I’ll shut up about TDD for a bit, unless anyone’s got any questions. If you decide you want to use this presentation, it’s open via the Creative Commons license, but please let me know, as it’s interesting to see where it goes.

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DDD Scotland roundup : TDD talk available for download

Thanks to everyone who attended my TDD talk at the weekend. I’ve already got some good feedback, and I accept that maybe I didn’t have a clear enough title or take home message. It was about more than just not having enough time, but the take home message of TDD should be that the overall cost of development will depend much less on debugger and tool performance and much more on the quality of your tests, which is something you have far more control over.

The final cut of my presentation and code is available via the ScotAlt.Net code repository, and it will be available from the ddds site. It is also current available at:

I’m still following the #dddscot and #tdd streams on twitter if anyone wants to send feedback via twitter, or post a comment here.

If anyone can make it to Glasgow city centre this week to talk development, you’ve very welcome to join us at the ScotAlt.Net meeting in Waxy O’Conner’s in Glasgow this Tuesday 7th May at 7:30.

For anyone at my or horn grok talk, or who was interested in the links at the end of my talk, here they are again in clickable form :

Amazon referal links for the books referenced in the talk, other book sellers are available:

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Developer Day Scotland 2 is tomorrow

OK. Slides are written, code is prepared. Laptop is charged up. Hopefully I’m ready for tomorrow. The final cut of the presentation is quite different from the one linked in my last post. I hope to be able to get it up for sharing on Google Docs, but it is available via the ScotAlt.Net code repository, and it will be available from the ddds site.

I’ll be following the #dddscot and #tdd streams on twitter if anyone wants to send feedback on the day (I may be nervous now, but I’m always willing to learn). I may not be able to respond to the feedback straight away, but It’s always gratefully received.

Hope to see lots of folk there, and be sure to bring your questions. If I can’t answer them, I’m sure someone in the audience can, or bring them along to the ScotAlt.Net meeting in Waxy O’Conner’s in Glasgow this Tuesday 7th May at 7:30.

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